Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 19:07:36 -0700 Reply-To: Maryland Birds & Birding Sender: Maryland Birds & Birding From: Clive Harris Subject: Re: Species Measurements in Bird Guides In-Reply-To: <119C4720.162EE5C1.0016BA20@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Length measurement are probably most useful as a guide of size relative to other birds. In many older bird books this is given not in terms of inches or cm but size relative to a common species of more or less the same size (e.g "House Sparrow +", "Crow - " etc.). I must admit I prefer size ranges rather than a single figure, (although that in itself raises the question of how the ranges are defined) because some species show quite large variations in size and a single figure might mislead. For example: next winter look at decent sized group of Herring Gulls and you will see a considerable range in size. Regards Clive Harris Cabin John Md Steve Huy wrote:No yawning by anyone. Don't sweat the measurements. Can you look at a hawk and accurately say it is 19" rather than 24" from anything more than five feet away? Probably not. I don't know anyone who can. Those measurements are just a guideline to assist in ID. If its 5" it is not a peregrine, if 19" then not a swallow. WHen I worked with Scales & Tales I had many people coming to me telling me how small all the birds were. Up close they look a whole lot different. Many people truly believed a red-tailed hawk is four feet tall! (and that's just one of the more conservative over-estimates I've heard) Accuate measurements aren't necessary for birding. Only banders use them and they aren't going by what is in the field guide. The guide authors probably used data from studies or study skins. Most likely the latter, banders tend to not use overall length measurements - only wing, tail or specific body parts. And from what you cite form teh guides, I'd go with Peterson as being more accurate. 19" seems short for an RT. As for the missing pictures, chances are there is not enough difference to make it necessary or no difference at all. That first winter male probably looks just like a second winter male to the casual observer. Just my thoughts. But don't tie yourself into knots - you should be having fun! You probably know a lot more than you realize. Steve ======================================================================= To leave the MDOsprey list, send e-mail to listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com with the following message in line 1: signoff mdosprey ======================================================================= --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ======================================================================= To leave the MDOsprey list, send e-mail to listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com with the following message in line 1: signoff mdosprey ======================================================================= =========================================================================