Date:         Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:48:23 -0800
Reply-To:     Maryland Birds & Birding <MDOSPREY@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sender:       Maryland Birds & Birding <MDOSPREY@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
From:         Marcus James <marcusjames2@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: A little question
In-Reply-To:  <NFBBKJCAALCEOBEFLELDAENDCCAA.billellis@ellislist.com>
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 Hello Bill
  I just took a little look at the wikipedia site.
What do you think of some of those things? Should Owls
and nightjars be in the same order?
--- Bill Ellis <billellis@ELLISLIST.COM> wrote:
> Marcus:
>
> I believe that the reason the Patuxent site shows
> grebes in Ciconiiformes is
> because of the somewhat radical conclusions of
> Sibley (Charles, not David)
> and Ahlquist based on their DNA-DNA hybridization
> research in the 1980s and
> early 1990s.  A lot of their conclusions have been
> seriously questioned
> because of conflicting scientific evidence.  For
> instance, their assignment
> of New World Vultures to the stork family
> (Ciconiidae) instead of with the
> hawks and eagles has been countered with data
> showing no such relationship.
> That question is still not resolved.
>
> Patuxent has done what I did a few years ago -
> swallowed Sibley and
> Ahlquist's findings hook, line, and sinker.  I now
> consider the Monroe and
> Sibley World Checklist of Birds (1993) an aberration
> in the history of avian
> taxonomy.  Much of the work Sibley/Ahlquist did was revolutionary,
> innovative, and deserving of great admiration.  But
> they overextended the
> interpretations of their data.  They embarrassed
> themselves the worst with
> their faulty, very biased, interpretation of simian
> DNA studies, which may
> have led to the attack by scientists on all their
> work.
>
> Check this out, but don't believe it all -
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibley-Ahlquist_taxonomy
>
> Don't believe Patuxent or S&A - use your intuition -
> grebes are really more
> closely related to the Little Brown Jobs (LBJs =
> sparrows) - look at the
> Pied-billed Grebe!
>
> Bill Ellis
> Student of Avian Taxonomy
> MOS - Carroll County
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus James
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:09 PM
>
>    Hello
>  I was just at the Patuxent Wildlife Research site,
> looking up the Pied-billed Grebe. When I looked up
> it's Taxonomy, it said the grebe is in the order Ciconiformes. ...
>  Has there been a 'new' ornithological 'conclusion'
> that says this ...
>
>
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