Todd Hopefully you are correct about the reported bird being most likely a western tanager, based on the description of bill shape and size. But in my opinion the bill/head structure of a yellow-throated vireo is quite tanager-like (moreso than warbler-like), though smaller of course. The terms "flesh-colored," and "wide at the base" are quite subjective and not diagnostic. I really don't think any of the reported field marks totally rules out the vireo. Since I have no knowledge about Kurt's level of birding experience, I am just suggesting an alternative possibility that should be considered. Kurt, any comment? Marshall ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Re[2]: Western Tanager at Riverbend, VA Author: mdosprey@ARI.Net at NBS-Internet-Gateway Date: 10/9/98 2:34 PM Marshall, In a message dated 98-10-09 09:25:36 EDT, you write: << Although I no longer have your original description of this bird, nothing I read here eliminates yellow-throated vireo (possibly also pine warbler?). Particularly given that the initial impression was that of a warbler, and the subsequent size comparison with a yellow-rumped warbler makes it sound more the size of a large vireo than a tanager, which would be considerably larger yet. >> Bill shape and size in Kurt's previous posts ruled out any warbler and vireo possibilities for me. He describes the bill as flesh colored, and wide at the base. He called it a tanager-like bill. Cheers, Todd Day Jeffersonton, VA BlkVulture@AOL.com