Greg, I have heard putative American Crows give the Fish Crow call. Note that the juvenile begging call sounds a lot like a Fish Crow, though it is not steretypically doubled, like the 'unh-unh' call of the Fish Crow. I had a lot of experience listening to Fish Crows in Lake Charles, LA, where they breed and form large roosts just as American Crows do (See addendum below). My impression after listening to Fish Crows for 7 years is that they ALMOST NEVER have a raspy note in their call ('cah' rather than 'car'). The only times I heard raspy notes enter their vocabulary was when a flock was mobbing a predator. So I have devised the following scheme for 'identifying' an unknown crow in the DC area: 1. While just schmoozing around, does the bird utter raspy notes? It's an American Crow. 2. Does it intermix raspy and non-raspy (even 'unh-unh' double notes)? It's an American Crow 3. Does it only utter the non-raspy calls? It could be a Fish Crow or an juvenile, begging American Crow. For (3), I further ask: Is it with a group of raspy-calling crows? Most likely it's a young American Crow with its family. Is it with a group of similarly non-raspy callers? Most likely it's a Fish Crow. Is it calling during the Fall or Winter, when those pesky juveniles should have stopped begging, already!? Most likely a Fish Crow. Notice that in this scheme, my ID's of American Crows are generally non-qualified, whereas all the criteria for Fish Crows are qualified with 'most likely'. When confronted by an 'unambiguous' Fish Crow, (not the qualifying quotes again), I have strained to detect some morphological criterion for separation: Fish Crow smaller, shinier, thinner-billed, longer- legged, etc. In the DC area, all have been defeated by one 'car' given by the bird as it flew off. Now I hear a rumor that there may be hybridization between the two in this area. If people wishing an unambiguous Fish Crow, Lake Charles may be the best bet. Addendum: Everyone likes going to far-flung places to see huge flocks of birds: Flamingos in East Africa, Eastern Shore for Snow Goose, etc. How come people aren't coming to White Flint Mall in Rockville to see the 10's of thousands of flocking American and (I think) Fish Crows that assemble in the area every night? It's on a Metro stop, for heaven's sake! Jim Jim Felley Smithsonian Institution irmss668@sivm.si.edu