Folks, I have not read the complete historical account on the Trumpeter's countability as quoted by Phil Davis. But, from what he wrote in the referenced quotation, there appears to be some room for disagreement. Consider the quote: The (Trumpeter) Swan is not found nearer than about 30 miles below Washington: at the mouth of the Occoquan, on the right bank of the river is his highest feeding ground, which is the lowest spawning place of the white shad. Here, and for some 30 or 40 miles below, this noble bird is seen floating near the shores, ... The problem is that the mouth of the Occaquan can be interpreted as flowing into Belmont Bay, which is Virginia waters, at least according to the DeLorme map I reference. The state line stretches from the tip of the Mason Neck peninsula to Freestone Point, which lies just off Leeslyvania SP (as an interesting aside, I heard Am. Pipits at this latter point a couple of weeks back). Now I admit the possibility of Swans feeding in the river proper though I find that this happens rarely. Typically, I note the large numbers of Tundra Swans often found feeding in the shallows of Belmont Bay, esp. north of the Mason Neck SP visitor center near the shoreline, which could be considered the right bank of the Occaquan if one is looking from the east. Also, directly across from Mason Neck SP there are 3 small islands which are great locations to spot massing Cormorants in Oct/Nov and these can be seen from the new refuge (the old Army Lab testing facility) from the west side. Its important to point out that this area also seems to be good for migrating waterfowl and is very close to where the Occaquan empties into Belmont Bay. Thus, this area of Belmont Bay could also be considered the "right bank" as given in the quotation if one is looking from the west. In either case, the "right bank" is found in Belmont Bay - Virginia waters. It is also useful to point out that Tundras are regular feeders in the Great Marsh at Mason Neck, an area that is all in Virginia, and just a short flight from Belmont Bay. occasionally. Usually this involves a fly-by flock with no aggregations on the Potomac River (for more than a day or two) reported in recent times. Note that in some years Swans feed in the area (such as the evidenced by the juvenile pair of Mute and Tundra off of Hunting Creek and Jones Pt for the last 3 months or so.) Thus, Swans are seen occasionally on the Potomac in this area, often staying near the shallows of Hunting Creek (VA), but usually for only a short time. In my scans of the Potomac south of Dyke Marsh to Accotink Bay, I rarely come across Swans in the river. Most sightings are in the protected bays such as Accotink or Piscataway. What Swans are seen on the river are usually present for a short time. This observation coupled with the Dyke Marsh data suggests that Swan movements on the Potomac from Jones Pt south to Mason Neck usually involve migrating flocks and rarely feeding flocks in the river proper. When Swans are noted, they occur in the bays which are all in Virginia waters save for Piscataway in the stretch of river I am discussing. near where the Occaquan enters the Potomac, then this area could be interpreted as Virginia waters. I am assuming that Trumpeters migrate and feed in the DC area in a manner similar to the other two Swan specie that we commonly find. The conclusion is based upon the fact that Tundra Swans are regularly seen in Belmont Bay, and not in the Potomac River proper, which lies beyond this site, except as fly-bys during migration. Admittedly, the portion below the Occaquan for "30 or 40 miles" may also include Maryland waters, but it is important to point out that many bays in this stretch lie entirely in Virginia waters (such as Quantico Creek Bay). Further, the quote does not specifically mention a Maryland bay off the Potomac (and bays are where Swans are more likely to be found). Thus, since the quotation can be interpreted as referring to Virginia waters because a specific location is mentioned, and since the general location mentioned may also be interpreted as being Virginia waters, and since the author of the quotation was not referring to a fly-by during migration, and since the historical feeding areas of Swans near DC are mainly in Virginia waters, and lastly since the quotation was referring to a specific phenemona which occured in an area that the author was clearly familiar and lay in Virginia waters, there is room for disagrement that the quotation and source are referring specifically to Maryland waters. Note that if Trumpeter's migrated through this area (as we should believe given the evidence of the quote and the evidence of the Tundras found in this area) I have every reason to believe that a well-versed birder would have spotted them fly along the Potomac migration path. But I do not expect these birds to land in the river and take up a long-term feeding posture. Thus, if the listing of these birds for Maryland is due, in the main, to potential fly- by observation during migration, then it is proper for the species to be listed in Maryland. Otherwise, I disagree. Of course, if there is more to the source then was posted which negates the above argument, then you could safely ignore the present discourse! Nothing like starting an argument on hump day, eh? Kurt Gaskill, kurtcapt87@aol.com