Harvey Mudd wrote: >>>Neither Marion nor I were able to convince ourselves that we could be sure there was a constant distinguishable difference in the dark tones of the upper parts of the two. [Kelp and GBBG] >>> I reported yesterday that I felt the mantle color of the Kelp Gull is very similar to GBBG. My comparative view was from a great distance - the two birds were flying well upriver from the Sandgates observation area. Had this been my one and only view of the Kelp Gull, I would have called it a GBBG. Its mantle was indistinguishable at that distance (and in bright sun) from the GBBG. Much has been written about this gull already. After seeing it yesterday, I spent awhile studying my gull texts last night. I found Harrison's guides singularly unhelpful on the key field mark - leg color. The photo guide gives a good idea of the structure of the bird, but the photos on the Internet are actually better. (By the way, I do not have a copy of the Kelp Gull Field Notes. Has anyone given thought to obtaining the necessary permissions, scanning that photo, and posting it on the Net?) I found Harrison's plates in his older guide of no use, but the text is somewhat helpful. I do not own the Large Gulls video, but I intend to rectify that situation forthwith! I found Grant very helpful, albeit only as a resource to rule out the darker mantled LBBGs. I especially would call attention to Plates 264 and 269 showing L. f. intermedius alongside Yellow-legged Gulls. The Maryland bird bears no resemblance whatsoever in terms of structure to the intermedius birds pictured in these Grant plates. Where the intermedius birds have a long profile, small head, and relatively slender bill, the bird I saw yesterday has a shorter profile and larger barrel chested appearance, larger head, and thicker bill with more prounounced gonys. As for L. f. fuscus, although this subspecies has been ruled out by others, I would add that to my eye the Maryland bird has a wider white trailing edge to the wing than the fuscus birds pictured in Grant at Plates 290-293. Now, if I can just sneak away from work again to study the bird some more.... Tom Stock Silver Spring