Richard,

What you are thinking of applies to introduced species but not to the splits. Introduced/reintroduced birds can only be counted once accepted as established/reestablished and then only in areas that they are accepted. For instance, you can't list a Green Parakeet seen in Phoenix, AZ even they are listed as established in south Texas. That only applies to lists that are used in accordance with ABA rules. Of course you can count anything you want on your personal list. If someone has a list that includes birds seen at the zoo aviary for instance, let them knock themselves out. They just can't submit it for ABA consideration. I personally list the Red-legged Honeycreeper that I saw on Garden Key in the Dry Tortugas even though it was rejected as origin uncertain by the Florida Records Committee. I disagreed with their logic that it may have been a caged bird from the mainland. Cuba is certainly closer to the islands than mainland Florida and the species population has exploded there. This bird also showed up with a Yucatan race White-tipped Dove and a Western Willow Flycatcher during a period of persistant strong southwest winds, so who knows.

If they split the juncos, they will be all good again and countable without having to see them again. I had seen 3 species of juncos when they were lumped way back when. It wouldn't make sense to take them away and then make me see them again. The rules also allow me to see the other 'species' in the group and count them when they are actually listed as species in the future.

The delema occurs when a split comes along and you haven't taken the time to identify what used to be a sub-species. Let's say that the Short-billed Dowitchers are split into 3 distinct species. What do you do if you've only listed Short-billed Dowitcher and never figured out which one you've seen? Where does your conscience go with your list in that case? That's why you should identify the birds down to sub-level if you're able to do it.

That's all I got to say about that.

Ed Boyd
Westminster, MD

---- Richard Wood <> wrote: 
> Actually, I DO care insofar as my list is MY list and I can list anything on it.  I have species on my life list that records committees don't approve of.  It just seems to me that the one's that "subscribe" to the record committees would be the ones that would go by the "official rules".  
>  
>  I seem to recall being told that one cannot count a bird until it has been split.  One cannot then go back and add it once it HAS been split, you have to see it again after the split.  Thus, all the non-Dark-eyed-Juncos that I have seen can't be counted if and when they are split until I observe them AFTER they have been split.  Same for a Western Palm Warbler, it's still a Palm Warbler until one sees it the next day after it is split.
>  
>  Good birding,
>  Richard