Everyone,
I believe in the 1980's, many states were arguing over the same issue with
Peregrine Falcon. I remember reading a Pete Dunne book describing the
countability of the Falcon on a World Series trip.
Regards,
Dave Powell
Germantown, MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Boyd" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Trumpeter Swan "countability" (was: Schoolhouse Pond
conditions & birds)
> George,
>
> Where and when did I come into this equation? I don't remember this
> conversation. Anyway, I found the following on the ABA website:
>
> Rule 2: The bird must have been a species currently accepted by the ABA
> Checklist Committee for lists within its area, by the A.O.U. Check-list
> for lists outside the ABA area and within the A.O. U. area, or by Clements
> in general for all other areas.
>
> B. Currently accepted by the ABA Checklist Committee means:
>
> (iv) An indigenous species which is reintroduced into an
> historic range of the species may be counted when the population meets the
> ABA Checklist's definition of being established or when it is not possible
> to reasonably separate the reintroduced individuals from naturally
> occurring individuals.
>
> Rule 3: The bird must have been alive, wild, and unrestrained when
> encountered:
>
> B. Wild means that the bird's occurrence at the time and place of
> observation is not because it, or its recent ancestors, has ever been
> transported or otherwise assisted by man.
>
> iii) Birds descendant from escapes or released birds are
> considered "wild" when they are part of a population which meets the ABA
> definition of an established introduced population.
>
> What does this mean? Hell if I know. Actually, I believe that Matt was
> correct in his response. Since these birds are descendants of a
> reintroduced population to a historic range, I believe the guidelines in
> Rule 2 apply to this. I believe that every indication is that these birds
> are indeed from Ontario and they have been accepted by the authorities
> there as established. If that is the case then the birds should be
> countable here as well. Even under Rule 3, established birds of introduced
> populations, would make these birds provided they are recognized as such.
>
> As for the Whistling-Duck, well . . .
>
> Ed Boyd
> Westminster, MD
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George M. Jett" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Trumpeter Swan "countability" (was: Schoolhouse
> Pond conditions & birds)
>
>
>> Mark
>>
>> Ed Boyd said you could not count them since they are likely introduced.
>> The PG bird even had a number band on it.
>>
>> You can count it as a state photo species since the rules are less
>> strict, and likely no one really cares. Heck, I even counted Paul
>> O'Brien's pet Black-bellied Whistling Duck, "Hallux" (hind toe) on my
>> photo list.
>>
>> George
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Hoffman, Mark" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Trumpeter Swan "countability" (was: Schoolhouse
>> Pond conditions & birds)
>>
>>
>> Phil - Jim Stasz said I could count them, so I chased the PG bird.
>> Shouldn't that be good enough? Do we really need to get bogged down in a
>> lot of details?? :)
>>
>> Mark Hoffman
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phil Davis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 12:00 AM Eastern Standard Time
>> To:
>> Subject: [MDOSPREY] Trumpeter Swan "countability" (was: Schoolhouse Pond
>> conditions & birds)
>>
>> Kurt:
>>
>> You know the old saying ... "it's your list, you can count anything you
>> want!"
>>
>> The MD/DCRC has a few reports of Trumpeter Swan, some banded some
>> not. When they are reviewed, the odds are (assuming they are not
>> hybrid "Trumpling" swans) that they will be found to be "ID OK/Origin
>> Questionable" (for the unbanded birds) or some equivalent to "Origin
>> Exotic" (for the banded birds). Trumpeter Swan is on the Maryland
>> list as an extirpated species due to historical accounts of them
>> wintering along the Potomac River in the 1700s.
>>
>> To my knowledge, the MOS "Locality List" reporting still has no
>> defined criteria for counting, except (as the game of bridge)
>> ostracism. Now, Norm has reporters over 350 MD species submit their
>> list of new species each year for public scrutiny.
>>
>> So, my personal opinion (and not that of the committee as a body) is
>> that all of the Trumpeter Swans in MD are a result of the MANY state
>> reintroduction programs in the northeast and midwest and I would not
>> count them on any of my lists.
>>
>> Digging in to the ABA rules, I think you will also not find any
>> support for counting these birds.
>>
>>
>> Lots of related links here, especially on the reintroduction programs
>> ...
>>
>> http://www.trumpeterswansociety.org/links.htm
>>
>> A good historical perspective is here ...
>>
>> http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/swans.html
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps ...
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>> At 19:55 09/05/2006, you wrote:
>>>What is the countability status of the Trumpeter at Oxbow Lake (and
>>>Schoolhouse Pond, for that matter)?
>>>It strikes me that by most criteria, they are not countable. Is the
>>>New York population self-reproducing?
>>>Yes, I realize that one's list is what one makes it, but would like
>>>to adhere to generally-accepted criteria
>>>where possible, unless it's something off base, like the Rehoboth
>>>Monk Parakeets not being countable.
>>>
>>>Kurt Schwarz
>>>Ellicott City
>>>goawaybird at comcast.net
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "jim brighton"
>>><>
>>>To: <>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:25 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Schoolhouse Pond conditions & birds
>>>
>>>
>>>>In response to Fred's message about School House Pond, I was there
>>>>yesterday evening and had 28 Great Egret's and an immature
>>>>Black-crowned Night-Heron. Also, at Oxbow Lake Nature Preserve
>>>>there was an immature Little Blue Heron, Great Egret, and a Trumpeter
>>>>Swan.
>>>>
>>>>Jim Brighton
>>>>Oxford, Md
>>>>
>>
>> ===================================================
>> Phil Davis, Secretary
>> MD/DC Records Committee
>> 2549 Vale Court
>> Davidsonville, Maryland 21035 USA
>> 301-261-0184
>> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>
>> MD/DCRC Web site: http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
>> =================================================== |