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Re: MD Osprey Limit?

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James Tyler Bell

Reply-To:

James Tyler Bell

Date:

Wed, 6 Jun 2012 10:43:53 -0700

An alternative would be to find a university host, perhaps the U of MD, since they typically have unlimited subscriptions. I did this with several state lists when National Audubon began charging $300 per year per list. The computer gurus at Princeton and NDSU were able to move the archives as well thus perpetuating the stored history of each list.
 
As for paying an annual fee, I'd be more than willing to chip in! If every member, or even 5-10% kicked in $5, I suspect that would either pay for the list in toto or enable Norm to ratchet up the subscriber base by a few hundred.

Tyler Bell

California, Maryland


________________________________
From: Neil Rothschild <>
To:  
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] MD Osprey Limit?

Speaking as someone who spent a good year or more trying to get a membership
on this list, and getting very lucky by just recently succeeding...

While anyone can go out and read the archives, I think the email
subscription is critical since our birds don't always wait around for us to
get back to computers and think about clicking into the archives.  And those
reading the archives cannot easily and quickly contribute their sightings,
which hurts everyone.

Assuming the intent is to remain with the existing list server, I think the
best solution would be to raise the money that is needed to open the list
and make it accessible to all birders that want the data in a timely
fashion.

It could be done a number of ways...

1.  An annual "donation drive", which I see done on several of my free lists
that are privately funded, usually by one generous individual.  That is not
guaranteed to raise sufficient money but depends on how those that are "in"
really feel about the importance of growing the membership.  And if that is
not acceptable or does not raise sufficient funds...

2.  An annual fee for the membership.  I would have gladly paid 10 bucks a
year or whatever to support this list, and even though I am now one of the
chosen few I think I would still be up for it :-)

3.  If that does not sit well... An annual fee for all new members,
grandfathering old members.  Then those not among the chosen few have a
choice as to the importance of timely real time receipt of the data and will
have an option they do not now have- pay for the cost of their email service
and their right to post.

The list could still be free to those that just want to browse the archives.


I don't know anything about the cost structure of the list or the
incremental cost of new subscribers.  I just know that the idea of a free
list not open to all, with the entire cost born by one generous Saint, is
not really tenable and arguably it is not fair to the birding community as a
whole.  Maybe most importantly, it also creates ill will among the unwashed
masses seeking and failing to get membership (don't ask me how I know).  If
we believe the data and email service is valuable then we should be willing
to share in the cost.

I don't have an opinion on the best web vehicle for our needs; I'd leave
that up to the long time members that have lived the list for so many years.
I just feel very strongly that the list should be OPEN to all.  If it needs
to be free to the members (except our generous Saint) then it should be some
free and unlimited vehicle like yahoo groups.  If that is not acceptable and
not deemed optimum, then we should ALL be willing to pay a tiny bit each
year to make it the best it can be AND OPEN TO ALL.



-----Original Message-----
From: Maryland Birds & Birding [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Jared Fisher
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 10:40 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] MD Osprey Limit?

Hi all,

The basic functioning of the mass-email is not hard too replicate and there
are free services to do this. However, from what I've seen, listserv still
may have an edge in archiving. No doubt at this point, having a decades
worth of posts in the same spot as what we currently use is of
great benefit. However, there is also no doubt that the listserv model may
be getting a bit dated, and it has never worked well for truly gigantic
lists of people. As the birding community grows, it really is unfortunate
that some are shut out of the ability to communicate. Other states with
large birding communities, have adopted more local lists and of course
maintained a overall state list to communicate bird sightings of importance
at that level. Also, if done correctly, forum-based models can be quite
good. ( http://www.ilbirds.com/ for example). Sub-forums dedicated to
rare-bird reports, trip reports, ID discussions etc. help keep things
focused and actually encourage a lively discourse. In my opinion, sometimes
a listserv may hinder discussions since some are off-put by having to email
the entire group. With the right setup, folks could still receive posts via
email for the topics of their choosing and it would have additional
benefits like embedding photos, etc. This option would cost money, however,
and require the time/skill of several. Again, I know we are all very
grateful for this listserv and the time/money spent, by Norm, on
maintaining it. Any criticism I have comes down to Listserv licencing which
I think charges way too much for what it does. In the meantime, I think
opening up avenues of communication on social media for both local bird
clubs and MOS statewide is a great idea.

Jared Fisher
Bethesda, MD



On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Ross Geredien
<>wrote:

> As a general discussion question, are there any other listserve-services
> to which MDOsprey could migrate that have better usage terms that might
> accommodate more users?
>
> Ross Geredien
> Edgewater, MD
>
> Follow Me on Twitter
> @goodmigrations1
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Jason Berry <>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] MD Osprey Limit?
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm glad my original post stimulated some discussion.  By no means should
> it be meant as a criticism of Norm or his selflessness of setting up (and
> paying for) the listserve.  It's also interesting to hear that others have
> setup local bird lists.  While this is fine and might even be necessary
due
> to the membership limit to MDOsprey, I'm concerned that it could end up
> splintering communication too much.  If folks in DC were to setup
something
> like this, I wonder if people would always cross post to MDOsprey.  I'm
> sure we wouldn't want sightings to fall through the cracks.
>
>
> While George mentions that he doesn't think it's good if everyone can
> post, I think there's more to gain from increased participation than to
> loose with clutter.
>
>
> In this online age, it just seems like there are free options that can
> accommodate all those interested in MD/DC Birding (e.g. yahoo groups,
etc.).
>
> Respectively,
>
> Jason Berry
> Washington, DC
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: George M. Jett <>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 5:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Don't Reinvent the Wheel Re:MD Osprey Limit?
>
> Kurt
>
> But not everyone can't post.  Perhaps this is a good thing.
>
> My 2 cents worth.
>
> George 
> www.georgejett.net
> -----Original Message----- From: Kurt Schwarz Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012
> 4:49 PM To:  Subject: [MDOSPREY] Don't
> Reinvent the Wheel Re:MD Osprey Limit?
> For those who haven't figured it out, EVERYONE can get to the MDOsprey
> sightings, just go the website and click on Archives.  And it you don't
> like the alphabetical listing, they use.
>
> Type birdingonthe.net into your browser, click on Regional/Specialties,
> then MDOsprey.
>
> You don't need an account to do either.  So you don't have to create yet
> another password. Sure you can't post, but ask somebody on it.
>
> And as always, thanks to Norm for all he does!
>
> Kurt Schwarz
> HowCo
> Goawaybird at verizon dot net
>
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