Soneone, or perhaps more than one someone, over the past week or so has stressed that we, as birders, shouldn't wait for the local expert to certify a bird so we can count it on our life list. Rather, we should all pay as careful attention to the bird in question as possible and then form our own opinion, based on our own observations and our own reasoned analysis, as to what species we are looking at. Most of us can do this with most species, but when a difficult bird like "The Gull" pops up, it becomes, for many of us, a true learning experience, or at least it should. I feel I've learned a tremendous amount during this discussion about looking critically at a bird, about defining the parameters of the research that must be carried out, and about presenting one's opinion to the powers that be--the records committee. Is Bruce Peterjohn's personal attack on Mark Hoffman typical of the way that such submissions are handled by the MD/DC Records Committee? If so, I can see why you may have trouble getting people to submit their thoughts to you. The only mean-spiritedness I've heard in this entire discussion were right at the beginning, when we were told we shouldn't be discussing this on the Internet...and right at the end, when that same person posted a note for some one else, then promptly unsubscribed from MDOsprey. I've never submitted any notes to the records committee...after hearing how they're received, how responses to opinions become personal vendettas, I probably never will. Best, Norm Saunders =============== Norm Saunders Colesville, MD osprey@ari.net