Folks, I use the Thayer software and find it adequate. It consists of two different programs that do not require the other to operate, though they do work together if desired. The first, Birds of No. America, is a simple computer field guide similar to Stokes and originally written for Intel-based PCs. As you might imagine, its limitations are similar to the Stokes in that pictures are often poor substitutes for drawings, esp. for those species with poor photos in the public domain. (Of course the film clips, esp. of owls hunting, are interesting.) A fast CD ROM drive is useful here, 12X or higher I would suppose. Also, at least a 1MB video RAM is desired, the more the better! The song and call recordings are not complete, are drawn mainly from the VIREO collection, (I have a Bicknell's Thrush song from 1964 which is exactly the same used in the Thayer!) and is one of the most useful benefits of the program - much much easier than sorting through the cassette tapes! The distribution maps are the same as the maps you can download from the Dept of Agriculture web site (CBC and BBS), though they are, of course, locked into the year the program was printed on disc. This is not a real limitation. Each listing takes a page out of Ehrlich et als' book which is nice, unless you already have the book, yet even then has timely usefulness. Some misc. material is present which is OK, but generally not used (though a description of a Rio Grande trip was very good background for my trip nearly 2 yrs. ago - I slightly exceeded predictions based upon the numbers given.) This program is supported by a web site and I understand the new version (available now?) has all the recent splits, a few minor bugs fixed, etc. The Birder's Diary is a simple data base program, using fairly old technology. This means it can be a bit slow and if you have anything less than a 486 then avoid it (actually, a P1 works better and a P2 would be nearly ideal). The program has a listing of all 918+ species found in No. Am. (even the Brown- chested Martin). It is designed to let you list for states or locations you create in a state, mapping the data to state life list determinations. For example, it would be easy to make county listings for MD which could be individually viewed or printed out where you designate the date range for the synopsis. For my purposes, I have created sites that I frequently bird, e.g. Indian River Inlet/Silver Lake or C&O canal nr Penneyfield Lock or Herrington Manor or No. Carolina pelagics out of Manteo or So. CA Sierras, and after trips type in the sightings, numbers and comments (up to 35 pages of comments for each sighting are claimed!), make sure the day's date is accurate and save it away. (My data base currently has about 19000 sightings of species, with one or more birds per sighting.) You can even map the location of the Northern Wheatear at Cape May using a US map CD which comes with the kit (amusing, but not useful for me at this time). For locations that are infrequently visited, I just report to state with location commented. Special handling of CBC data is included which could be interesting if you bird the same CBC site year after year. A special report option allows you to print out detailed information you recorded for a region in a specified date range - for example this is useful for Riverbend Park to update this fall's neo- tropical migrant abundance listings. Also, you can get a quick sightings synopsis on screen for a species, date and place, from your life list. This can be useful to quickly see when and where you often see Black-throated Greens or Cassin's Vireo. For world birding, all of these features can be used with different world lists which are available, for example Sibley's. Again, this feature is useful (and I can designate which list to use for various countries) A Rosetta stone is available to obtain common names between different lists. Problems with the Birder's Diary: some of the state lists are not up to date (Delaware has Nelson's Sharp-tailed Sparrow listed but not Saltmarsh! The Puerto Rico list is missing a couple, too.). I am hoping these will be changed with the new update. To be fair, the web site supports downloadable fixes to common problems; for example, the recent Vireo and Titmouse splits are accounted for in the data base and I would expect Thayer to continue suppporting this type of fixes in the future. Another problem is that I would like to create a "superstate region" of Delaware, Maryland and Virgina because this is the region I bird extensively yet, the special regions you create cannot cross state lines. When I do a quick synopsis of a species, it would be valuable to get date, place and NUMBER seen in the listings. Lastly, as my data base is now getting large, it takes a long time to load (almost a minute). I could get more RAM on my machine (I have 32MB) but the authors of the program could use better data base algorithms, saving all of us from this problem. Lastly, a version for Macs is not available or is still in beta testing. I have not tried other programs but descriptions and reviews I have read suggests that these other products are not as powerful and easier to use than the Thayer's products. I understand positive comments about the software were made during the recent ABA fest in Texas. I believe significant improvements could be made to the Thayer's products, but, since there are a limited number of data base programs to choose from, the serious birder should give serious consideration to using Thayer programs; visit someone with them and try them out! Kurt Gaskill, kurtcapt87@aol.com