This is being forwarded for Ottavio Janni, who is not signed up for MDOsprey. On initial quick read-through, I can't think of anything to add. Except that Dwight's Gulls monograph indicates that Kelp Gulls can have visible head streaking in the adult non-breeding (=definitive basic) plumage. How visible I need to look up tonight. Best, Rob Hilton robert@csa.com Bethesda, MD +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Here are some more notes/thoughts on the possible Kelp Gull in St. Mary's county. Rob Hilton, Lisa Shannon and I watched this bird on Feb. 14 from 9:30 to 11:15 AM, and again on Feb. 15 from 9:30 to 3:30, along with Dave Czaplak and Mary Ann Todd, and after lunch, by about a dozen other birders as detailed in Phil's post. I am pretty confident that all gull species except for -intermedius- (and possibly -intermedius/graellsii- intergrades) Lesser Black-backed Gull (LBB) and Kelp Gull can be ruled out, and most of the characters shown by the St. Mary's Co. bird are a better match for Kelp Gull. I am reasonably confident that -fuscus- Lesser Black-backed can be ruled out on structure alone, as -fuscus- is the smallest, thinnest billed, longest winged subspecies of LBB and I think structurally the St. Mary's bird is too bulky and thick-billed for a Lesser Black-back, except perhaps for a large -graellsii-. I am not aware of any confirmed records of -fuscus- in N. America. I think -graellsii- can be safely ruled out on mantle color. Size: We watched the bird on Saturday in close proximity to Herring Gulls (HEGU), while on Sunday it spent most of its time by itself. My general impression is that it is about the size of Herring Gull, or slightly smaller. This however can change dramatically according to posture and to which Herring Gull it is next to. On Sunday we watched the "Kelp" Gull chase off a first-winter HEGU, and the Kelp looked distinctly larger than the HEGU. We then watched chase off an adult HEGU, and the Kelp looked very slightly larger than the HEGU. It then flew into the water and landed next to another HEGU, and all of a sudden the Kelp Gull looked tiny (the HEGU must have been a very large one)! Generally, I feel the bird is about the size of a small Herring Gull, though its bulky appearance makes it seem larger when it is off by itself. Size is good for Kelp Gull, which averages slightly smaller than HEGU. I think size is OK also for a large -graellsii-LBB. Note however that -intermedius- LBB averages smaller than -graellsii- (87% of body size according to the article in Birding), so if the St. Mary's Co. bird turns out to be intermedius it would be a very large one. Structure: My very first impression upon seeing this bird on Saturday was of a Great Black-backed Gull (GBB) with yellowish legs, and immediately afterwards I thought "Wow! It has a huge bill for a LBB!". Generally I feel this bird looks bulkier, deeper chested, and thicker billed than just about any LBB I've ever seen (and I only have experience with -graellsii-, which averages larger and thicker billed than intermedius). I and most other other people I discussed this bird with felt that the third white primary tip on the folded wing (or P7) fell even with the tail tip. This primary projection seems to be short for intermedius, in which the fourth white tip on the primaries should fall even with the tail tip (which is however what Phil and Marshall's notes indicate). From photos and videos I've seen the primary projection looks OK for Kelp Gull. The head shape was tricky to judge as it varied a lot with posture, and a few times it looked pretty good for LBB. However, at other times it didn't and I think it was consistent with photos and videos of Kelp Gull that I've seen. The bill shape was the first thing that I saw on Saturday that made me suspect that this bird may not have been a LBB (Rob keyed in on the leg color first). It appears to me to be thicker than any -graellsii- I've ever seen, with a pronounced gonydeal angle. While the bill looks generally of even thickness throughout its length, it appears to be thickest at the gonys. The sharpness of the gonydeal angle may be a good clue in distinguishing it from LBB, as Kelp should have a sharper gonydeal angle, but I'm not really comfortable judging this feature. While many Kelp Gull photos I've seen show an even thicker bill than the St. Mary's Co. bird, some show a very similar bill shape. In conclusion I think bill shape and general structure favor Kelp more than they do -intermedius- LBB, and completely rule out -fuscus- LBB. Mantle color: Very dark. In general, the mantle seemed very similar to that of GBB, and perhaps very slightly paler. This impression changes according to light conditions: there are times when the mantle looks almost blackish, and times (rarely) when it looks almost pale enough for a dark-backed -graellsii-. However, the only time that we actually saw this bird right next to a GBB, the "Kelp" Gull's mantle looked slightly but distinctly *darker* that the mantle of the GBB (this would be a very good character for Kelp Gull). In flight the entire upperwing looked very dark with no noticeable contrast with the black on the primaries. The tertial and scapular crescent were quite prominent, and on the folded wing the tertial crescent extended noticeably onto the secondaries. In conclusion I think the mantle is dark enough to rule out -graellsii-, perhaps on the dark side for -intermedius- (but still OK), and pretty good for Kelp. I think it would be helpful to observe this bird on an overcast day, as well as having more extended observations of it next to a GBB, to better assess mantle color. Wing pattern: The upperwing looked very dark gray, with no noticeable contrast with the black on the primaries. The bird had a fairly thick, conspicuous white trailing edge on the secondaries, extending perhaps onto the inner primaries (I didn't look for this). The only white mirror was a small one on P10, and several of the primaries had noticeable white tips. At close range and with a telescope one could see two tiny white tongues on P5 and P6 when the bird stretched its wings out. This pattern is an excellent match for that shown in Jon Dunn's Large Gulls video (close-up still of Kelp Gull's wing pattern). Apparently, some -intermedius- can show a similar wing pattern with such a small white mirror on P10 only, but they should be a small minority. On the underwing, the flight feathers appear very dark (except for the broad white trailing edge on the secondaries), again with a small white mirror on P10, and white tips to some of the primaries. The wing pattern therefore seems to be a very good match for Kelp Gull, and could also be shown by a small minority of -intermedius- LBB. Head and body plumage: At first glance the head and body appear pure, gleaming white. Upon closer inspection however there are some small, sparse, inconspicuous dark streaks on the head, concentrated on the nape and extending even more faintly on the crown. The photo of the Texas Kelp Gull which appears on the cover of Field Notes (Vol. 51, No. 3? I don't have it with me right now [winter 1997? with Ned Brinkley's hurricane birds article--Rob]) shows a very similar pattern of head streaking. However, as Kelp Gulls are always supposed to show clean white heads, it would be useful if anyone had a photo of the St. Mary's bird earlier in the winter. If any such photos show more extensive head streaking, the argument in favor of Kelp Gull would be weakened (this is potentially the *only* feature inconsistent with Kelp Gull). I think most LBB (at least graellsii) should show more head streaking than this bird now, but some LBBs can certainly look pretty white headed by mid-February, so this might be a moot point (and anyway intermedius should on average have less head streaking than graellsii). Soft Part coloration: As Rob immediately noted, the leg color is the single biggest point against this bird being a LBB of any subspecies. Depending on light, the legs look anywhere from dull grayish-green to yellowish with a gray-green tinge. Maybe the best description of leg color, as Dave Czaplak put it, is "split-pea soup" . I would say that a grayish element is noticeable 100% of the time, and a greenish element is noticeable 90% of the time (and is usually quite conspicuous). I have never seen a LBB with a greenish tinge to the legs, nor have I ever seen a photo of one. Nowhere in the literature that I've checked (need to do more checking) have I seen it mentioned that LBB can show greenish legs. Grant's Gull book states than a small minority (as many as 3% in some large samples) can show a grayish tinge to the legs, but he never mentions green. The leg color however is an excellent match for Kelp Gull, and resembles very closely the leg color of the Kelp Gull on the cover of Field Notes. Jon Dunn's Large Gulls video stresses leg color as an excellent field mark for Kelp Gull. I am not sure that leg color completely rules out LBB, but if this bird is a LBB then it certainly is a very odd one. One the other hand, leg color seems to be an excellent match for Kelp Gull. The bill is fairly bright yellow, with a large, diffuse red spot at the gonys and a slightly paler tip. Above the red spot, there is a faint but noticeable orange "flare" on the upper mandible. Perhaps this is inconsequential, but a similar flare can be seen on the photo of the Texas bird on the cover of Field Notes, as well as on some of the Kelp Gulls in Jon Dunn's video, and on one photograph in Steve Howell at al. article on Kelp Gulls in the Yucatan in "The Euphonia"[Volume 2, No. 4, Winter 1993, pp. 71-80--Rob]. The orbital righ is orange or reddish orange (both LBB and Kelp should have red or reddish orbital rings), and the eye is a pale, greenish/graysh/yellowish (not brighter yellow as on most LBB). In fact the soft part coloration of the St. Mary's co. bird matches that of the Texas Kelp Gull strikingly well (several observers commented upon this). In conclusion, I think the bird's features match Kelp Gull better than they do -intermedius- LBB, and that the other subspecies of LBB and other gull species can be safely ruled out. If this bird is an -intermedius- LBB, than it has an unusual wing pattern (but still consistent with -intermedius-), is exceptionally bulky and thick-billed even for -graellsii (and even more so for -intermedius), and has an extraordniarily unusual leg color for any LBB. The combination of an -intermedius- LBB showing all three of these features seems remote, but not impossible. I would have no doubt in calling this bird a Kelp Gull if it had an even thicker bill, even darker-mantle, and pure white head (this last point is potentially the only serious problem with Kelp Gull), but as it is I think it is much more consistent with Kelp than with LBB. However, I have no field experience with either Kelp Gull or -intermedius- LBB (plenty with -graellsii- though), so these comments are only based on my interpretation of what I've read and the photos/videos I've seen and the birders I've talked to. There are more photos of Kelp Gull on the web at: http://www.west.net/~dj/domi_d.htm, and there is a Kelp Gull ID article, based on the birds in Lousiana, at: http://www4.linknet.net/LOS/los_news_181_98july.htm. If anyone has access to the Handbook of Australian, New Zealand, and Antarctic Birds (HANZAB) Vol. 3, I suspect this is the best place to look for detailed plumage descriptions of Kelp Gull, and would be an essential reference for identifying the St. Mary's Co. bird. I don't have access to it. Ottavio Janni Washington DC ottavioj@iadb.org