In a message dated 2/28/99 6:32:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jlstasz@aol.com writes: << Hi Folks! The European System of numbering primaries is from the outermost inward, the American System is from the innermost outward. American P10 = European P1. Mirrors are always on the outer 1 or 2 primaries: 10 and 9 in American terms, 1 and 2 in European terms. I would note, the American System is based upon the sequence of molt of the primaries: American Primary #1 is the first to fall out and be replaced. You need to know if the author is using American or European terminology when describing the primaries. Secondaries are humbered from the outermost to the innermost in both systems. As Paul Woodward mentioned, identical to the sequence of molt of this group of feathers. Good Birding! >> Ahhh, now here's the answer to my question! Thank you Jim for clearing this up for me! Now, I wonder why no mention of this is made in either of these (otherwise fine) books. I guess this is the ornithological (or should I say "ornithoillogical") version of the metric system? Anyway, I have printed out your reply and will tuck it away in my gull or seabird book for future reference. Thanks again for clearing things up so succinctly. Warblerick@aol.com Rick Sussman Ashton,MD