Andy, I see you've got a lot of responses to your question, all great suggestions. Sounds weird but the biggest problem I have, and maybe it's just boys,( I've never led girls so I don't know),is that they love to throw rocks----incessantly. What's up with that? And it's not just throwing rocks in the water. It's into the woods and off cliffs and off the back of someone else's head, and, and , and...... And if it's not rocks... it's sticks. I've found that if I make the rule in the beginning, with a promise of a skipping stones contest somewhere within the course of the day, it helps them control the urge. Oh, another thing, explain to them that the binoculars are to be worn around their necks at all times. Another mystery to me, but they like to swing them like bolas. Also, 15 kids is a lot. It might be wise to round up some parent volunteers or another birdwatching friend to help herd the kids. You wouldn't want to lose any of them.<g> Barb Meserve skiptech@compuserve.com