Walter

Are Shrikes raptors?  Probably not even by the broad definition you posted.
Big and cruel are relative,  but they eat vertebrate flesh, have hooked
beaks, and fit your definition.  I would consider owls raptor, but the
survey was during the day when nocturnal raptors are not generally out.   I
have only seen Short-eared Owls do anything remotely like soaring.   What
about crows and jays?

"It ain't over until it is over" - C.S.  It's over!

Regards

George

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Ellison" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] What is a raptor? (was E. Neck Hawk Watch)


> Hi All,
>
> If owls can be considered raptors, in spite of a very distant taxonomic
> relationship to hawks and falcons - and they are considered raptors in
> every
> sense of the word - then New World vultures can also safely be kept within
> the fold. The original order *Raptores* of Linnaeus included owls and New
> World vultures. Raptor has not been a taxonomic term for a long time.
> Recently the hawk fanatics have taken to restricting raptor to diurnal
> hunters, but this is not the dictionary definition, as Casey Stengel was
> fond of saying, "You could look it up".  If it's big, has cruel talons, a
> hooked beak and eats vertebrate flesh, dead or alive, it's a raptor. Of
> course this begs the question regarding meat eaters like Marabou Storks,
> frog and fish catchers such as herons, and the like, but that can be
> fodder
> for furthering this thread. Sorry for the pedantic tone, but pedantry is
> sometimes infectious; besides George brought my name into the discussion.
>
> In Sheepish Controversialism,
>
> Walter Ellison
>
> 23460 Clarissa Road
> Chestertown, MD 21620
> phone: 410-778-9568
> e-mail: 
>
> "A person who is looking for something doesn't travel very fast" - E. B.
> White (in "Stuart Little")
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George M. Jett" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Eastern Neck Hawk Watch - Saturday October 23
>
>
>> Folks
>>
>> Vultures are not raptors.  They are more closely related to storks, but
>> Walter Ellison can explain this in more detail then I.  They often get
>> included in raptor counts.  Raptors are in the order falconidae and
>> accipitridae.  Vultures are cathartidae, and they are now placed before
>> waterfowl (ducks and geese).  Maybe it is tradition.
>>
>> George
>