I never knew I might find some use out of going to law school in my pursuit 
of birds. As a lawyer, I just loved reading Matt Hafner's reply to Phil 
Davis! Bravo, Matt, you should be on the Supreme Court bar!

Though I'm not a big lister, I do keep a life list (which is somewhere 
around 515-520), and on that life list are such gems as:  the Cameron Run 
Barnacle Goose, the Rehobeth Monk Parakeets, and several birds I've just 
heard (Yellow and Black Rails, Connecticut Warbler) - which I guess the ABA 
said is ok at some point. I have not counted an adult Black Swan with young 
I saw at Little Creek WMA in 1975, or the famous Bombay Hook Shelduck from 
that same year, or the Budgie I once saw in downtown Bethesda, or even the 
Green Parakeet I saw one fall at Cape May. Don't ask me why. But then there 
are even legitimate sightings I haven't counted, like an outrageously 
misplaced Glaucous Gull Jackson Abbott pointed out to me and others at 
Bombay Hook in August 1970 (I didn't get a good enough look at it), or lots 
of pelagic species that I haven't counted because all I saw was a blur. 
(I've found it takes about three trips to the Gulf Stream to finally be able 
to ID a Band-rumped MYSELF.)

But I can assure you that when I finally get out to Schoolhouse Pond and see 
(and ID) the Trumpeter Swan there, I'm going to count it! So nyah, nyah, 
nyah to the purists. If I need to, can I call on you, Matt, to defend me?

Tom Stock
Silver Spring, Md.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Hafner" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Trumpeter Swan "countability" (was: Schoolhouse Pond 
conditions & birds)


> Phil,
>
> I agree that all MD Trumpeter Swans are the result of the state 
> reintroduction programs in the midwest and northeast.  However, some of 
> these reintroduction programs have been accepted by their local records 
> committees as "Established."  If a swan from one of these populations 
> wandered into MD, then I would think it would qualify under ABA rules as 
> countable.
>
> I'm not sure if the Ontario birds are considered established, but I 
> thought that they were.  If the Ontario birds are established and we know 
> the Schoolhouse Pond and Oxbow Lake birds were from that population, I 
> don't see why they would not be countable.  In fact I would consider them 
> more countable than a Black-bellied Whistling-Duck in a Montgomery County 
> restaurant complex ;)
>
> This discussion would be different if the birds were not wing-tagged.
>
> Matt Hafner
> Bel Air, MD
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:58 PM
> Subject: [MDOSPREY] Trumpeter Swan "countability" (was: Schoolhouse Pond 
> conditions & birds)
>
>
> Kurt:
>
> You know the old saying ... "it's your list, you can count anything you 
> want!"
>
> The MD/DCRC has a few reports of Trumpeter Swan, some banded some not. 
> When they are reviewed, the odds are (assuming they are not hybrid 
> "Trumpling" swans) that they will be found to be "ID OK/Origin 
> Questionable" (for the unbanded birds) or some equivalent to "Origin 
> Exotic" (for the banded birds). Trumpeter Swan is on the Maryland list as 
> an extirpated species due to historical accounts of them wintering along 
> the Potomac River in the 1700s.
>
> To my knowledge, the MOS "Locality List" reporting still has no defined 
> criteria for counting, except (as the game of bridge) ostracism. Now, Norm 
> has reporters over 350 MD species submit their list of new species each 
> year for public scrutiny.
>
> So, my personal opinion (and not that of the committee as a body) is that 
> all of the Trumpeter Swans in MD are a result of the MANY state 
> reintroduction programs in the northeast and midwest and I would not count 
> them on any of my lists.
>
> Digging in to the ABA rules, I think you will also not find any support 
> for counting these birds.
>
> Lots of related links here, especially on the reintroduction programs ...
>
>  http://www.trumpeterswansociety.org/links.htm
>
> A good historical perspective is here ...
>
>  http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~insrisg/nature/swans.html
>
> Hope this helps ...
>
> Phil
>
>
> At 19:55 09/05/2006, you wrote:
>>What is the countability status of the Trumpeter at Oxbow Lake (and 
>> >Schoolhouse Pond, for that matter)?
>>It strikes me that by most criteria, they are not countable. Is the >New 
>>York population self-reproducing?
>>Yes, I realize that one's list is what one makes it, but would like >to 
>>adhere to generally-accepted criteria
>>where possible, unless it's something off base, like the Rehoboth >Monk 
>>Parakeets not being countable.
>>
>>Kurt Schwarz
>>Ellicott City
>>goawaybird at comcast.net
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "jim brighton" 
>><>
>>To: <>
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:25 PM
>>Subject: Re: [MDOSPREY] Schoolhouse Pond conditions & birds
>>
>>
>>>In response to Fred's message about School House Pond, I was there 
>>> >>yesterday evening and had 28 Great Egret's and an immature 
>>> >>Black-crowned Night-Heron. Also, at Oxbow Lake Nature Preserve >>there 
>>>was an immature Little Blue Heron, Great Egret, and a Trumpeter Swan.
>>>
>>>Jim Brighton
>>>Oxford, Md
>>>
>
> ===================================================
> Phil Davis, Secretary
> MD/DC Records Committee
> 2549 Vale Court
> Davidsonville, Maryland 21035 USA
> 301-261-0184
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
> MD/DCRC Web site: http://www.MDBirds.org/mddcrc/rcindex.html
> ===================================================
> ________________________________________________________________________
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