Norm, We had lots of Pine Siskins on our Tulsa, OK CBC around 87 or 88--I can't remember. I never had them at my feeder there, though...just those pesky Harris's Sparrows... 450 and a broken piggy bank? <grin...I feel your pain> 450 is a whale of a year. I'll bet you've got lots of stories, too... -- Greg Miller Lusby, Maryland, USA Home- gregorym@erols.com Work- gregory.b.miller@bge.com WWW- http://www.erols.com/gregorym